Typical VA.
Typical of VA. Create a task force 20 years later, put Gulf War Illness in the title, then claim to be doing something about it. Here's a suggestion for your task force: try finding any VA doctor that uses the term, "Gulf War Illness". Here's another suggestion, FOLLOW THE LAW! rather than wasting so much effort at trying to get around the law and screwing a veteran. The GWV's Undiagnosed illness law was passed a very long time ago (1997 or 1998), after YEARS of veterans being told by doctors that they could not figure out what was wrong, and right after the law was passed, all of a sudden veterans were being given diagnoses to get around the law, no matter if that diagnosis had any basis in medical fact, and no matter how many years that veteran was told the doctor could not figure it out. A veterans claim was then denied under that law because there was a frivolous diagnosis. Here is another suggestion for your "task force": Immediately develop a way to mandate all VA personnel who provide medical care are trained in whatever memo-of-the-week you are putting out. It does not give confidence in any part of the VA system when a veteran is more informed than the doctor on what VA policy is. Most don't take the time to read your memo or do your "training", or go through it just to check off a box and forget about it 5 minutes later. Here's a suggestion for veterans: If you run into a quack who obviously could care less about veterans, file a complaint with your state board of medical licensure. Each state requires VA doctors to be licensed in the state they practice in. If a few VA doctors found their license was threatened, things might improve. Go to a civilian hospital, and you see information everywhere on this complaint process. Go to the VA and there is...nothing. Or a patient rep or ombudsman who could care less. Here is another suggestion for veterans: Get familiar with the "research" the VA is doing in our name. Quite often it is repeated from research done years ago. There is independent research that is being done now, and the VA is working overtime to get that stopped because it is affecting their gravy train.
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Pat commented
Sea52501, roger all. That there are studies and movement now is because of folks that went before and continued to fight, push, write letters, made calls, got in front of Congress, etc.
Given my totally non-PC approach to things, unless I get hit by a bus, I'll continue to push as much as I can even if I'm bed-ridden. If I have one finger working, a computer and an Internet connection, I'll still be pushing!
A great Veterans Day to all. I'll be in a parade here in Las Vegas tomorrow proudly carrying the Army Flag as one of several Service and US flag bearers supporting a great organization that focuses on military, police, and firefighters called Horses4Heroes.
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Un commented
Kevin and all, thanks for all you have done to help our fellow vets. For those who have not been long in your struggle, our frustration comes from battling for our claims and those of others. It took 7 years before my claim was approved and only after i testified before congress. After that testimony, it was done in a week. It had been denied 3 times previously, and the person who finally approved said it was if nobody had ever looked at it before then. For me I had the strength to fight. For many others, the did not, or died waiting. Showing frustration with this broken process after 20+ years should be expected.
A blessed Veterans Day to all.
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Un commented
Kevin and all, thanks for all you have done to help our fellow vets. For those who have not been long in your struggle, our frustration comes from battling for our claims and those of others. It took 7 years before my claim was approved and only after i testified before congress. After that testimony, it was done in a week. It had been denied 3 times previously, and the person who finally approved said it was if nobody had ever looked at it before then. For me I had the strength to fight. For many others, the did not, or died waiting. Showing frustration with this broken process after 20+ years should be expected.
A blessed Veterans Day to all.
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Dedicatedsoldier commented
Un: Have complied! Had two doctors removed from the VA years ago. As far as those that come after us; many have decided against military service after studying the plight of us, the unaddressed. . . The numbers are huge in fact. What was once a family tradition of serving in the US military; has come to a dead halt throughout my entire lineage. This issue being the "loss of faith" that drove the once "willing"; to fall by the wayside. This has affected us in much larger terms already. Maybe if Congress wasn't so willing to protect the financial interests of the "bio complex" we'd have some actioning?
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michael commented
Sea52501
Well said I could not agree more.
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sea52501 commented
Pat, I commend you. You still have a fire in your belly and that is an asset all by itself. When I mentioned how long I'd been out it wasn't meant to frame the distance between our relative separations. The conditions we deal with are, 'chronic multi-symptom illnesses of unknown etiology' or to put it plainly, diseases that sap the life out of us day after day. I sincerely hope that nine or ten years down the road you are just as passionate and energetic in your pursuit of life, liberty and happiness as you are today. My prediction however, is that you - like so many of us who have struggled these past twenty or so years since Desert Storm - will find the years carry more weight than anticipated and the fire of your youth turns gradually to the ashes we prematurely elderly take for granted.
You are absolutely right to make things better for those who follow. We who have borne the banner so far have tried to do just that. Imagine your own struggles so far, project out a decade from now if you can, to imagine all your efforts compounded by injury, illness and political deadlock yielded little more than a few nods in your direction towards acknowledgement, diagnosis, and treatment. We have only recently moved beyond the stage where clinicians and researchers believe that our maladies are real physical problems and not merely the product of stress and mental reactions to combat conditions. I pray that a decade from now, when my son is of age to serve, that enough progress has been made that I can encourage him to serve as his father and my father and his father before him served. -
Pat commented
You as well Michael. I'm cynical by nature and assume the worst. Therefore, I work to get it fixed or at least provide a way forward if I can't find the answer.
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michael commented
Pat,
Yes I see how positive your post have been happy early veterans day thank you for your service.
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Pat commented
Whether you've been out a year or longer, continuing the fight is the key point. Can discouraging things happen? Always, but then they happen everywhere. Stickig to your guns to follow through takes time, but is worth it in the end and makes things better for those that follow.
Michael, no assumptions on my part. Further, you've seen hundreds like me? Really? When? I'll go have a beer with them. In truth, no one is like me unless they have been passed over for promotion 10 times in a row, openly present honest assessments to superiors to ensure the Soldiers are taken care of and to heck with my career, and would rather spend extra time ensuring Soldiers are taken care of while pissing off those who are snug in their cubicles to the detriment of my family life (and my wife was also an officer). So point me to them.
That you think I'd do well in a VARO is, to me, a complement since I'd do my best to get vets paperwork expedited, follow-up on that paperwork, and stay abreast of the latest developments.
Can you say the same? Of would you rather continue to toss out stereotypical comments which do nothing but waste time? You were an NCOs, great. Go set the example, get involved, be a leader and help out the new vets so they don't have to go through what you did.
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Im 100%sc/pt, and recently secured SSD beneies at age 40 there is hope! The only reason I have this is because (I fought for it) thats the only way you will get it because thats the system! one single person against a bunch of Drs. Its not real hard to get through this system if you know what to do and have plenty of time to do it. There are spefic things the drs can and will diagnose. If you have the symptoms but seriously dont think thats what you really have humor the dr if its a catagory thats compensible. For example I didnt think I had PTSD but I had lots of the symptoms so my VA Dr kept sending me to mental health. I didnt realize it at the time but they were trying to put me in the ONLY catagory I could be paid in at the time! If you dont fit the "tiny hole" of benifit oppournitunity your SOL. So go to the VA to doccument your symptoms (THAT NEVER CHANGE OR GET WORSE) and be prepared to find an outside Dr that will grab his sack and write you a good letter that at the bottom carries the phrase that will save his/her ass from the gvt if needed... (these statements are true to the best of my knowledge and belief with a reasonable degree of medical certainty)! As soon as I recieve my retroactive benifits from SSD I will pay someone to set up a website where vets can go to see what it takes to recieve benifits every doccument and article I have as evidence will be available for all to see gimmie about 2 months.
Im also on a DSvet website that has been irradicated of the gvt whores screaming RESEARCH 24/7.
Just so everyone knows the gvt states 230,000 DSvets are ill we know they lie but multiply that times 1500$ for each soldier (thats about 70% disability) =345,000,000$ per month the gooberment would be spending if they had to pay that many people.
now guess how much they have spent on RESEARCH in 20 years and a light might come on the # is 270,000,000$
Now if they can hold off 200,000+ claims (as we die) only the strongest and those willing to fight get paid.
Im not saying I know everything but I spent 10yrs of my life fighting for what I knew I was owed and Im glad I did.
I want to help (many) for now if you are interested in discussing anything go to (Gulf War Ilness The LAST Stand) or (Sick Gulf War Veterans 2 and Supporters) tag Chris Peterson, from there we can talk and if you want to be an active in a group Ill get you transfered into the "undisclosed group" its more like a family! Godspeed! -
sea52501 commented
Pat, no attacks or whining here. You said you retired a year ago. I have been out for over ten years. I have no idea how long Michael or anyone else has been out. I know my energy level is nothing compared to where it was when I was discharged. Being worn down by fighting the system that is supposed to help us cope with our health, well-being and the lack of either eventually breeds the kind of antipathy and contempt you've read here. Just a year or so ago I might have chimed in to this thread right after you posted your first message. Instead, its taken me a couple of days to speak up. Go easy on those 'lazy' folks who are complaining on this board (and all the others out there for that matter).
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michael commented
Pat,
Yes I can only go off what you write or do not write.No attacks just pointing out facts. So much of your comments are assumptions. Furthermore, I was also an NCO and seen hundreds like yourself. You would make good fit at VARO.
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Pat commented
Michael, you attack pretty good for someone who knows nothing about me except from a single post. I am a GW vet, I've been to Bosnia, Kosovo, Korea, and other areas that exposed me to all kinds of things, to include more shots than I can count. So excuse me if I tell you that you're arrogant response is unhelpful and misinformed. What have you done besides conduct an attack on me for knowing very little MICHAEL?!
Further, I look down my nose at anyone who simply whines and expects others to get something done for them. That didnt fly int he Army and it doesn't fly with me now. Do I know there are thousands of GW vets? DUH! They were there with me in Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Kuwait and up until I retired last year from 24 years Service, I did what I could to support them, get them equipment and resources they needed, and worked to fix doctrine and TTP items so better capabilities and procedures could get to the troops that needed them.
As for apparent misguided claims processes, I've spent the time since I retired laying out in great detail to the regional office here in Nevada, and prior to that in California, the details of injuries and issues that have caused disabilities with me. I didn't just dump my medical records on the VA and "hope" something would work out in my favor; I got with my VFW VA rep, followed his guidance, filed my claims, rebutted the Vas denials, and continue to provide information and paperwork according to the VA processes (of which there mare several overlapping ones). the higher you go the more people that get involved requesting more details. That's called staff work and following up that we all did while on active duty...what makes you think its any different here MICHAEL?
The fact there is a task force to hear the issues and address them is a major step forward. There was no such thing when my dad came back from Vietnam or my Grand Uncle from WW II. You think this is bad? You are misinformed then....particularly as I've see a large number of verbal attacks focused towards the VA on this site; a site set up to lay things put and discuss them rather than leave whiny messages about whats wrong and how bad things are. We all know they are bad, so what have you done today to fix them?!?
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Pat commented
Un, ok and I am doing what I can as I learn more. You appear to have inroads I don't into Congress, however, I send a stream of letters to my Congressmen/women and Senators via my membership with MOAA. I get with my VFW rep to get the inside scoop on how to rebut VA disprovals of my disabilities claims and then I pass the information on to other Vets.
I only berate when folks whine about things and don't do anything else and expect someone else to get things done. That is a bad course of action and results in nothing getting fixed. Simple information flow between us vets is key rather than smacking each other. If I was up on Capitol Hill or back in the Pentagon, I'd have the ability to "walk the halls" and do what I can. Since I live in Las Vegas, I can't, so, as I noted above, I write, propagate information and search out what I can do and try find out additional things.
Lastly, if you think getting with other vets to get their paperwork straight isn't helping, then you're off-base and wrong. Being able to provide information is the way to do it rather than letting vets search things out on their own. That is bad practice, unhelpful, and delays vets claims unacceptably.
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Pat commented
Harry, so you've identified the problem, what have you done to fix it, have it addressed, etc? Have you let the local new channels know about this? They love these type of stories since nowadays, such items get picked up by the main stream media quickly for ratings; especially in an election year. Have you brought these issues to the local VA rep, the VFW, DAV, American Legion, etc? If not, why not since simply laying them out and doing nothing makes the problem worse. Just like in the Army, would your leaders simply tolerate Soldiers laying out problems with no solutions? Absolutely not. In the 24 years I served in the army, anyone who did such a thing was told to back up and reboresight and bring several solutions to the table rather than whining about an issue and providing no courses of action to fix them.
When GEN (RET) Shinseki was the Army Chief of Staff, he had no problem taking 2, 3, and 4-star generals to task for throwing a problem on the table and then leaving it up to him to come up with a solution. Once, a 2-star "threw" a funding issue for a program on the table as a "hey, we're short nearly a billion in funding boss." Shinseki asked what the recommended solutions were and the 2-star went something like "got me, what do you recommend sir?" Things went downhill from there and a "don't bring me a problem without solutions to work with" mentality became the order of the day.
So what are your solutions to this?
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Pat commented
Kevin, concur however, the VA got a huge budget in 2010 (or was it 2011) to address issues and they are doing it. Fixing issues that are 30 years old compounded considerably over the past 3-4 decades is a huge amount of work. Pushing through Congressional reps in our states, joining and working with DAV, VFW, American Legion, MOAA, etc are also bringing things to a head with Congress. Heck, simply writing your Congressman has an effect as does starting your own grassroots organizations to "attack from oblique angles' as they say (see: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/giving/for-some-injured-veterans-community-service-is-a-way-to-heal.html?_r=1 for examples of simply getting vets increased visibility).
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Dedicatedsoldier commented
Pat: Congressional "Will" has been the missing element. Throughout the years, VA Doctors, certain employees (not all) have developed a cynical, skeptical view of the complaints of Gulf War Vets. Shinsekai deserves praise for the renewed effort, his hands though are still very tied by a Congress that suffers from selective memory, selective inattention to military issues as well as the VA. At the moment, good numbers in Congress would like to reallocate monies away from the VA - You can't bitch enough!
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Dan commented
My question is what manual does the VA Dr use, it is not the one for the vets as we know! How, can you rate me when you have never served but you can still draw a pay check from vets like us and not help. VA, has the same ole rules from the 70's and any new illness they don't have the answer at all, it's like you said a big gravy train for the ones who work there. Why not hire vets to be on the board and as Dr's, at least they know and understand what we are going through!
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Dedicatedsoldier commented
The long term costs of not treating diseases represents a greater cost to the taxpayer than compensating and treating upon onset.
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Harry Yohe commented
The VA would rather spend time and money attempting to cover up than help we vets. They are a disgusting gov. agency that looks out for itself, not us. I am subjects to go to JC VA Hospital in St Louis which ranks 137 of 139 as worst VA Hospitals in America for unsanitary conditions. They use unsterile equipment, pass on HIV and Hep C among other infectious diseases and the doctors there has that "What do you want me to do" attitude. It is easy to see why most of the VA doctors work at the VA hospitals; they couldn't work on the outside in civilian practice. They would be sued to the hilt. WE DESERVE BETTER treatment than what we are forcably subjected to.